Eine Liebesgeschichte oder sowas (German Edition)

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Inzwischen ist meine Tochter immerhin vier Monate auf der Welt. Immerhin hat sie vor drei Tagen endlich meiner Vaterschaftsanerkennung zugestimmt. War doch klar: es ging alles unglaublich schnell, ich wurde da eingeladen, ich hab mich einladen lassen, die erste Nacht gleich bei ihr im Bett geschlafen, mich drauf eingelassen, dass die ein Kind haben will.

Ich hab wirklich Alles mit mir machen lassen. Warum dreht sich alles um mich? Was denkt mein Hund? Mach ich alles falsch? Ist alles hab so schlimm? Ist Widerstand zwecklos? Was treibt mich? Ist alles in meinem Kopf? Kann man alles falsch machen? War ich noch nie ganz wach? Was macht 42 mal 87? Ich hab mein Auto verkauft. Ich war heute den ganzen Tag am Suchen nach einem neuen Auto.

Juni Ich hab heute meine Tochter gesehen, in diesem betreuten Umgang oder begleiteten Umgang. August gibt es telefonische Kontakte von Ihnen mit mir. Wir werden versuchen, noch ca. Mittwoch, 2. Oktober um 10 Uhr oder Donnerstag, Oktober um 10 Uhr. Wichtig ist, der Mensch muss frei sein und im Einklang mit der Natur leben.

Hier sind Grenzsteine, hier ist das Land markiert. Sie befinden sich in Deutschland, ich befinde mich in Arkadien. Oktober Meine liebe Tochter, zehn Monate bist du inzwischen auf der Welt. Und neun Mal haben wir uns gesehen. Zwei Stunden ohne Ergebniss. Sehr geehrter Herr Kees, mein Kollege und ich empfehlen Ihnen, insb. Umgang in Verbindung mit Beratung in der Familienberatungsstelle wurde versucht, eine positive Entwicklung konnte nur teilweise erreicht werden. Meine liebe Tochter, gestern war der Gerichtstermin um unseren Umgang.

Stellungnahme des Umgangspflegers vom Meist handelt er kindgerecht. Herr Keees bringt ihr auch jedesmal etwas zu Essen und zu Trinken mit. Meines Erachtens ist es im Interesse des Kindes, dass die bestehenden Umgangszeiten ausgeweitet werden. Es ist ganz toll, mit ihr zusammen zu sein.

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Ja, das kann man so klar sagen. Der Umgangsbeschluss des Gerichts ist jetzt zum Juni ausgelaufen. Ja, keine Ahnung wies jetzt weitergeht. Ich hatte die Mutter angeschrieben, mit der Bitte um irgend eine Verabredung. Ich hab auch das Gericht angeschrieben. Der Gerichtstermin sollte am August stattfinden. Auf Antrag der Mutter wurde er auf Ende August verschoben. Und gestern erreicht mich erneut ein Schreiben des Gerichts, dass der Termin nun auf Antrag des Jugendamtes auf den Oktober verschoben ist. Er findet also jetzt etwa dreieinhalb Monate nach meiner Antragstellung statt.

Also ein gemeinsames Sorgerecht, dass man teilt zwischen Vater und Mutter. Hallo Peter. Hier ist der Christoph. Mensch Du, heute war die Gerichtsverhandlung. Ich sag Dir, jetzt ist …. Leckt mich doch am Arsch. Und wie die Kinder damit zurecht kommen, das ist eine ganz andere Frage.

Das muss erstmal die Kinder sind da oft sehr schlecht behandelt worden. Schon ein toller Ort, also da kann man nichts dagegen sagen. Ich bin ja mal hierher gezogen, damit ich bei meiner Tochter sein kann. Jetzt ist sie fast zwei Jahre alt, naja, es ist ja nicht so, dass ich sie gar nicht sehe, aber es scheint so zu sein, dass es auch in Zukunft irgendwie weiterhin eine sehr anstrengende, schwierige Situation bleiben wird. Heute war das allerste Mal meine Tochter hier bei mir zu hause. Aber, ab wann kann man ein Kind sowas fragen? Doch, man kann das schon jetzt sagen.

Wir sind beide der Ansicht, das der Umgang zwischen Ihnen und Ihrer Tochter schrittweise ausgeweitet werden sollte. Sobald sie in den Kindergarten geht, soll der Umgang ausgeweitet werden. Ist es kalt? Nicht kalt? Das ist einfach wahnsinnig anstrengend und belastend. Man liest ja immer wieder von solchen Geschichten. Es ist enorm anstrengend. Ich hab mir jetzt einen Therapeuten gesucht, ja, ich muss irgendwie, ich will irgendwie versuchen, diese inneren Belastungen los zu werden, irgend einen Weg finden. Ansonsten pass ich in den Mikrokosmos nicht rein.

Ich hab das lange nicht verstanden. Aber irgendwie hat er Recht. Seit der Geburt meiner Tochter sind inzwischen mehr als zwei Jahre vergangen. Ein zerrissener Vater, auch wenn er sein Kind nur selten sieht, ist nicht gut. Ein solches habe ich weder bei Gericht, noch den anderen beteiligten Personen erlebt. Was fehlt, ist, dass wirklich aus der Sicht des Kindes gehandelt wird. Eigentlich Aufgabe der Eltern. Die Aufnahme funktioniert?

Nicht, dass Sie nach Hause gehen und dann war gar nichts. Dann ruf ich Sie wieder an She is the mother and she carries the child. And when the child is born, she is responsible for everything. But right now it looks as if she has the power and can decide upon everything. And you have very little contact with her.

And yes, she decides over everything. However, the mother of my child left me three months ago and has broken off all contact. We met two years ago during the summery month of August. I was in Munich back then because I had an exhibition there. I was on my bike, cruising through Munich-Schwabing, and on the bike in front of me there was a beautiful woman whom I cat-called.

I realized that moment that I knew her. Yes, we knew each other and went out for a cup of coffee. If you want to, you can sleep in my bed. Yes, a love story unfolds. She basically told me within the first couple of days that she desperately wanted a child. Of course I was overwhelmed because it was going too fast, but I was so in love that I just said yes. She went to the gynaecologist each month in order to determine her fertile phases. After all, we were about to become a family and have a child together. What do I do now? Should I stay in Berlin? Should I get a job in the area?

It was a long and hard process and… back to my old life or face the responsibility? At the end, after a long period of twisting and turning, I decided to leave Berlin and move to Munich, where I had found this house, in order to take care of my daughter.

Buntspecht: So was wie eine Liebesgeschichte

By the way, I am 47 and a freelance artist. I feel like a criminal who did god knows what to that woman. It reminds me of Watzlawick. Peter, please stop calling me every day. Regards, Susanna. This is totally outrageous. Absolutely outrageous. Naturally I would call her brother. And her father, he gave me a great book for Christmas, an old Faust edition, and a valuable book in which he added a few lines: I respect you as a person and will help you whenever I can.

You conceived a daughter with my stubborn daughter; our lines are now joined together. The instrument is clattering today. I have no idea why… Yes, roughly one week until the child is born. One week! What is this woman thinking now? The child will grow up just like that. But of course she has to take responsibility for the child that asks about its father. How will she handle the father? How does she imagine that? Or that you will contact her and give up all claims? Is she afraid that you will make any claims? Protect the child from these claims?

My dear child, the year in which you are born has just started. Today I felt as if something is going on with you and your mother. Has your mother gone into labor? Yeah, this hut is also part of the property here in Abersdorf. Great place. A study, playground for kids… no Idea. But I think kids would like this place. She told me, that she had been trying to have a child for years, and that it never worked. Well, it certainly worked with me. Somehow it was clear, that a relationship was a very low priority issue. Are you still there? Yes, hello Peter, this is Tina.

Hey Tina. Great to hear from you. Hey how are you doing? How are you? You mean regarding the baby? Today is the fourth, and the sixth is the estimated date of birth. And, to be honest, I have… Johanna has withdrawn all contact. Nevertheless, I would like to welcome you warm-heartedly into this world. I look forward to meeting you.

The father. Then please call the mobile phone. Yes alright. I mean I can also come in. Is she there? Just call the mobile phone. All right. Just wait. I tried to find out if the child has already been born or not. They want to get in touch with me. I have called several hospitals. Since 1 January — today is 9 January. Of course I tried calling her. Two hours later, I got a kind of birth mail that one usually receives from friends: Born on 1 January, this tall, this heavy, healthy etc.

And a note stating that a meeting in the near future is out of the question because she is too weak. Susanna just sent me an e-mail with a picture. I just saw my kid for the first time. Cray, Christophe… crazy! Today is the 21 January. My daughter is now three weeks old. No contact to the mother. I have restrained myself in concern of her situation with the c-section etc. Yesterday I got a bag with baby things back that I bought months ago when we were still together and she was already pregnant. I got it back without a single word. Until now, a simple and hard formula applied for fathers: no marriage, no custody.

The mother simply has to say no and the father had no chance to take care of his illegitimate child. In case of dispute, the family court will give a ruling. Joint custody should be given automatically for each child at birth. By now, every third child in Germany is illegitimate, in East-Germany even two out of three children. Unfortunately, my camera broke at the Waldchensee Forest Lake.

It just fell into the water. Yeah, in the meantime I actually got a chance to see my daughter. Once for one and a half hours. It was great meeting my child. At first it was very agile, but then, yeah, and then I played the piano. Then she fell asleep on my stomach, a very sweet moment. It was beautiful. The mother was very difficult.

She said no, after all she had to do such things all by herself as well. Then I was able to spend one and a half hours alone with my daughter. A kind of counter-TV-program without camera or broadcasting. Individual stories intrigue me. And what I mean by trivial is that we as people are all so different and yet somehow the same. And to see it like that is exciting. TV REAL basically works like this: just as a painter or a photographer tries to paint or take a picture of my counterpart, I try to do the same thing. Yes, great, the camera is back.

Now we can, now I can keep on filming. I talked to the mother once via phone, tried to call her. After she hung up on me a couple of times, she went to the police and reported me. Well, what am I supposed to say to that. I was born in Bayreuth and grew up there with two brothers.

We as grandparents are also affected, of course. We already have five grandchildren and know how much pleasure they bring. The way it is right now, it seems to me, personally, that what Lisa says is almost inhuman. Well, I had great hopes. I spoke to her on the phone in October. She was very surprised and friendly and thankful.

I offered her something. I sent her a small package and letter for Christmas. She actually sent a card back, thanking me and writing that new ways will show her the future. I was full of hope and kept on hoping… then she wrote stating I should withdraw all further contact. I did that. As soon as I heard that the child was born, I wrote to her again — no answer. Then I left her alone. That hurts. Totally absurd. I therefore have no possibility to sue the mother over right of access or custody.

Each and every one of us has the power to bring a child into this world, so I must also have the moral ability to ask myself in the case that the relationship ends: what do I owe the child? And where I can leave everything behind without getting a slap in the face, as is so often the case in relationships. And this inability to speak… or for the child to think. However, in my opinion it is a grave illusion to think that experts or the government can help in conflicts like yours.

Therefore, when leaving matters like these to the authorities, I leave myself open to a huge amount of heteronomy that basically has nothing to do with the child you want to protect and whose love you seek. But I think that we Germans are a little more sensitive, because we think there is an expert for every problem — however there are no experts for private matters. That she will probably develop an overprotective parenting style and probably restrict the child, nobody sees that coming… By the way, the mother informed me via her attorney that I must already pay alimony.

She prompted me to pay alimony pretty much immediately: the infamous paying father. You feel the same way as I do. There will be a voluntary mediation meeting. Yes, yes. Just stay calm and composed. Yes, I will. Oh, OK. How long will the appointment last? Well, you might still be able to catch me.

Maybe in the afternoon. Perhaps we can talk on the phone later. Well, how should we proceed? Hey there. Yes, Peter speaking. Hey Peter I wanted to inform you Oh my god! Well… you know, the emotions were in the air, aggressions. And she offered me supervised contact. With someone else? Well, there are these associations, carriers, where you can do this. Well, this story really is changing me.

By now, my daughter is already four months old. Why she always feels so hassled by the father of her daughter. After all, she finally agreed to the acknowledgement of my paternity three days ago. Oh boy, I really messed up. I basically acknowledged all the alarming signals right from the start, but I disregarded them because I was blinded by love. It was clear: everything went incredibly fast, I was invited, I let myself be invited to her bed right in the first night and engaged in the fact that she wanted a child.

I let her completely use me. I even handed in a sperm sample because she wanted to see if I was able to produce offspring. I was stupid. Why does everything evolve around me? What does my dog think? Do I constantly make mistakes? Is everything not all that bad? Does persistent desire help? Is resistance futile? What drives me?

Do I know everything about myself? Is everything in my head? Could one still live with a totally strange woman in a cave? Can one make every mistake possible? Was I never really awake? Should I invade Russia? I sold my car. I spent the whole day looking for a new car. Today is 20 June, I saw my daughter today in this supervised or supported contact thing.

It was nice. There is this supervisor, a social education worker or something like that. Then I leave and the child is handed over to the mother. Plain and simple. It was a great feeling to see my daughter for the first time in seven months, the second time ever. Due to my vacation, we are in the following situation: from 27 August onward, there will be phone contact between you and me.

We will try to establish supervised contact approx. Two times, hoping that your daughter will feel better and get used to these situations. There should be parental talks in co-consulting with my colleague and me. We can suggest the following two dates. Wednesday, 2 October at A. Please inform me which date best fits your schedule. Arcadia can actually be anywhere. It is only important that people are free and live in accordance with nature. Arcadia, which is actually an area in Greece, has been a symbol for a paradise-like state since antiquity. And now Arcadia also exists in Bavaria, one square meter big, located within four boundary stones.

And he is Peter Kees, conceptual artist, is its ambassador. These are boundary stones marking the land. Of course it does. But Arcadia really exists, as Peter Kees explains. He has established embassies of his state in Berlin, Naples or Havana. He has sufficiently documented the state territory near the Waldchensee and, as it should be, informed the free state and federal government per official letter. This means that this square meter is a piece of… on one side, a piece of luck, on the other, a refuge… therefore being connected to social and political aspects.

Kees, It is a pleasure for us to inform you that your artistic activity regarding Aecherlipass has caused quite a lot of joy for us. However, we would like to inform you that this activity has no effects regarding constitutional or international law. Respectfully Bettina Ramcke Team for public queries A little bit daddy. Of the trouble of life stage fathers.

And we have seen each other nine times. I don't fully agree with RenaRd about "ja". Since in here, we often practice a very colloquial kind of writing - somehow almost as if we were speaking, not writing - I find it acceptable to use "ja" in that sense in here. Interesting enough, the Glattauer books are written as an exchange of informal E-Mails, a similar kind of "colloquial writing" as in here, isn't it? Like most readers, I could hardly bear the ending of "Gut gegen Nordwind", but all the same, I thought it a really bad idea to give in to the pressure to write a sequel.

And the "ja" doesn't sound like "schimpfen", as RenaRd already said: it's kind of "augenzwinkernd". I do try to keep track at least a bit with "today's youth's" text-and-chat-short-language, but I'm clearly at a loss with Kw jp,db Please enlighten me I think she knows that we know that she would like to know I tried to find out why that is so. This paper is now open for discussion. I can't find good counterexamples, but I'm sure that my classmates read co-snails will help me out. Comment Spent a great weekend in Rhineland-Palatine; of course a little too much wine, but the weather was great and we also walked a bit which made us thirsty Wine and sparkling wine tasting was special and we learned some more details, besides of having a lot of fun.

The snail farm was going into hibernation, so we saw a few hundreds of snails only the farmer breeds only two species which should be the best ones - he had about We learned some interesting details about the love life of snails and how to prepare them One should not eat them from the shells, as these cannot be cleaned thoroughly. The country side was painted in wonderful fall colors, but yesterday some strong storms blew away many leaves, so more raking is due Comment harambee I disagree now who would have thought that?? As always, we can attribute that to regional differences I'd be interested in more opinions, though It's funny, waltherwithh , I eat meat and don't normally have a thing about "killing animals" if they are for food - but somehow, what you wrote about your visit to the snail farm made me decide that I wouldn't want to do that and learn about "snail harvesting" I ate snails once, prepared very nicely by a professional cook, and didn't find anything special about them, so I never tried again.

Comment Sorry, harambe, but in this case I have to disagree. The sentence sounds perfectly fine to me. Sure, we are more used to find the "dann" immediately after the comma, but if you read "dann" as "danach", as you can do here, the placing is correct. Comment Maybe it is indeed southern kind of thing to use "dann" like "danach" in some cases? Consequently, "danach" cannot be used. If it is a statement, the two possibilities mentioned by harambee are either to drop the "dann" completely, or have it directly after the comma.

Only my humble opinion, I can't back it up with any source and do not claim to have a thorough knowledge of German grammar. Comment "The "wenn" and "dann" used in this sentence are a clear case of a conditional use, not a temporal one. Just a small change, and my suggesion for a question would be a statement again " I fully agree with Sachs' comments in Comment I agree with harambee and Wik.

Very tricky, Sachs, but imho your examples do not work. You do suppress a further "dann" in both sentences. Comment Sachs , in your examples, the use of "wenn-dann" is a bit confused, i. In this case it is grammatically not "wenn-dann" but a single "wenn" conditional and a temporal "dann", which is in no logical or grammatical connection to the "wenn". Not very elegant, but somehow possible. How very Wagneresque, is your nick referring to the Meistersinger Sachs by any chance? I adore Wagner in small doses, but have only ever attended live-performances of the Ring-cycle. I've lost a lot of it since moving over to Holland, the ease of speaking and writing is just not there anymore, even though it is my language at home, and partly at work.

Mrs Wik is an English native speaker, so I won't get out of it completely. But yeah, I'm really looking forward to next year, going back to a properly English speaking environment. Have a good day, all you racing snails! Edith says: should have F5'ed. I'd go a step further, even: you can either use dann To repeat: "Wenn du jetzt eine Tafel Schokolade isst, hast du dann zu Mittag keinen Hunger mehr" is certainly colloquial, but I don't consider it wrong.

Neither is "Wenn du jetzt eine Tafel Schokolade isst, hast du danach zu Mittag keinen Hunger mehr", of course, that goes without saying. Carullus, when you say that "Wenn du jetzt eine Tafel Schokolade isst, hast du dann zu Mittag keinen Hunger mehr" is certainly colloquial, does that imply that "Wenn du jetzt eine Tafel Schokolade isst, dann hast du zu Mittag keinen Hunger mehr" is less colloquial and thus more suitable for a written text?

If so, we seem to agree more or less. However I have to get used to "Zu Mittag" ;- I don't say it's wrong! Comment It's nice to see once again that we can at least agree that we don't agree ;- You're right, and I said it before, that the placement of "dann" in the sentence might make a slight difference in its meaning. But I can't see anything wrong in "Wenn du das About my Nick: You're right, Wik, its origin is the "Hans Sachs, Schuh- macher und Poet dazu" from the Meistersinger, one of my top favourite opera characters.

But I'm not a real "Wagnerian", I like all or almost all, not necessarily contemporary operas when they're well sung. Nobody around knows how good you are in another language, then? Thanks to you I looked up some grammar articles again. I thank you for any correction! Goldammer , The donation of letters is still a mystery.

The rest is a matter of taste, I guess — like snails with garlic butter and white bread …. I can imagine it to be very s-l-o-w! On a normal weekday I can start a posting at Look, what an interesting topic can do! I have been reading along silently for a couple of weeks, collecting letters here and there. No "dann" is required at all. Moreover, I feel that "dann" is also redundant in the second example: "Wenn du jetzt eine Tafel Schokolade isst, hast du dann zu Mittag keinen Hunger mehr. However, I find it impossible to construct a sentence with the verbs in present tense in which "zu Mittag" lies before "jetzt".

Even if you turn the whole thing around like this "Wenn du jetzt keinen Hunger mehr hast, isst du zu Mittag eine Tafel Schokolade. I hope I was able to give some support to harambee's views and that I used the correct vocubulary. Comment In case you still care and haven't forgotten my existence anyway, I'm still alive ;- May I just second everything Emil has said, beginning with "Thank you very much, Robert"?

Comment Hello Emil, hello shhh, there's a life besides work. Stay for a while with friends who missed you. Thanks for the unfortunately you stepped on them when leaving slimy muffins. My strangest experience in terms of opera was a performance of Tchaikovskys "Eugene Onegin" in some opera in St. Petersburg in the mid s. I was 15 or 16 years old, in a cultural exchange,and our hosts got tickets on very short notice. Having never heard of the opera in question and unable to understand Russian, I had no clue what was actually going on.

The only part that stuck in my memory is a very emotional aria with the repeated exclamation: "Oh Olga! But then, instrumentalists and singers were excellent! RenaRd : bottle of whiskey, most excellent! Wouldn't mind a drop now, but I still have to drive home from work. Walterwithh has visited a snake farm? Welcome Emil 14 , quite an introductory post, full of content!

You have missed out on two pratical bits of information we as every newcomer to provide: your creditcard number and your shoe size. Comment pssst wik, Emil has been posting in the CC for quite a while already, if sometimes a bit irregularly Comment Thank you, Emil 14, for sharing these wonderful links with us! And "Waiting for the Man" is great, too! Comment Hello Emil14! I hope you are fine. At least you seem to have time to post long comments with great content, thank you. Wik: But he's not new, it's just his first post in Crossover Chat Aber sie sieht ganz anders aus, ehrlich.

Doch nicht etwa jemanden wie Pamela Anderson aus von? BTW, they often really got on my nerves too! Sie verhielten sich manchmal wie liebeskranke Teenager! Bravo RenaRd! Diese Verwendung war mir bisher gar nicht bekannt. Wie gut, dass ich keine Doktorarbeit schreibe. Schade um Cory Monteith. Comment Phew, that was close - but Goldammer and Alien saved me! Where are my manners? So, here is a special 'hello' to all snails who have not met me before. I think there has been a discussion on Blumen vs. Ich hatte vor, alles nachzuholen, aber ich schaffe das nicht mehr.

Also sage ich einfach "hallo" und schleim bald Richtung Bett. Wir hatten Besuch von unserer Partnerschule, deshalb bin ich in letzter Zeit rar geworden. Sie sind alle ins Flugzeug gestiegen und ich nehme an, dass sie in DE angekommen sind. Jetzt darf ich tief einatmen und an der Vorbereitungen auf Deutschland weiter arbeiten. Comment Emil 14 , please accept my sincerest apologies.


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Must have missed your contributions in my casual glances, maybe I just got too focussed on the old snails I used to chat with years ago. No offence ment! But anyway, I was forgetting my manners and didn't introduced myself to all snails who have joined the CC in my years of absence. So, I'm wik, born and raised in the Southwest of Germany.

I joined CC a long time ago in the double digit age during my first stint abroad. Now, having lived outside Germany for nearly 9 years my English is ok, my German deteriorating, my Norwegian is almost gone granted, reading and listening to it still works ; Dutch is my current enemy, and there is no love lost between us. My shoe size is 45, and my signature is accepted anywhere in the world, so I don't need a credit card. In the old times, this was considered stylish in academic writing, but we have moved on a little bit in the last years or so. And a few correctoritos for Amy-Mimi Comment Not having read "Alle sieben Wellen" I can only speculate, but yes, "Pamela" would probably conjure pictures of Pamela Anderson or some other stereotypical tall blond bimbo-like female.

Anglophone or otherwise "exotic" first names are stereotypically considered a sign of lower-class parents , Kevin and Chantal being the archetypes. In that regard, I don't know whether Cindy is much better than Pamela. But I digress. Letzes Jahr gab es Blumen You'd use blossoms in English, right? Not that I know anything of horticulture, of course. Ain't seen nothing yet is all I can say. OK, I'm lawyer by training, and legal writing is in a class of its own.

Oh, come on, it really wasn't that bad. I found it rather impressive for a learner of German, to be honest, not to mention perfectly appropriate. Comment und das schaffen nicht einmal die meisten ENS! Is it correct? I don't think so, but it's not so easy to explain. I will check in again during lunch break and I'm looking forward to reading your agitated discussions.

Would you even realize anything strange if this sentence came from a GNS? I, for sure, wouldn't. Comment Wow, so viele Fehler in einem Beitrag!?! Comment Everywhere, anywhere, that's one of my pet-mistakes. I will give special care and attention to this issue. Thanks, Amy! Other than that I think it could do with the comma I added : Carullus : I didn't want to imply that the sentence was grammatically wrong, it most certainly is correct. It struck me as a bit unusual, and nothing I myself would readily write.

It probably is just a difference of the style we two are used to, you with a law background, and I as a scientist who mainly writes in Fachchinesisch, aka "science-" English. I don't think I'm trying to construct problems, but of course I have to accept that the sentence sounds totally normal to you. It does not sound normal to me, but I may be wrong. Of course, I have no problem understanding the sentence. It is the combination of "nicht einmal" and "die meisten" that strikes me slightly odd.

What about the ENS? Is a sentence like " Not even most of the English speakers would accomplish that! I promise that I won't suggest another discussion of that kind tomorrow Comment wik , Snake farm — Oops! At least 3 of 5 letters were correct. Like many people of my age I had never seen Cory before. Possibly this is the reason why you love especially this video: A humorous, multi-talented young man has passed on.

I love compliments. Most of them do not know when to put it. The semicolon belongs to an endangered species. I learned from it to look for synonyms more carefully. Normally I would only use it this way when stressing a purpose. To look for your students?? Thanks for introducing yourself again! Being back he still finds the sentence curious. Sachs sounds a bit suspicious. O Amy wonders about nitpicking corrections. You have to be here more often, Amy! Comment RenaRd, I'm afraid your correction of "das" to "dass" is wrong!

The sentence in question can be rewritten as einen Konditionalsatz mit einem fakultativen 'dann', welches, wenn schon, gerade nach dem Komma gesetzt werden muss, and whenever a "das" can be replaced by "dieser", "jener", "welcher" or one of their relatives, it requires one s only. Comment OMG! Believe me, I know the rule. I must have seen only "dass, wenn" like in "Es ist so, dass, wenn du A sagst, auch B sagen musst". You were right! Comment You are racing at an incredible speed ; I can't follow you in detail. Just one little thing: I love the semicolon and am trying to use it wherever it makes sense.

Comment I love the semicolon and am trying to use it wherever it makes sense. Not to be contrarian or anything, but there are differing opinions as well. Kurt Vonnegut once famously said "[semicolons were] transvestite hermaphrodites representing absolutely nothing. All they do is show you've been to college. Heading this useful piece of advice , you really can't go wrong. Judex: Wir haben einen Termin noch offen Comment Typo, self-correction: Advice is heeded, of course.

In the best of all worlds, that is. Comment I heard and consequently saw you, suziq. There was a gentle squeaking to hear that caught my attention, caused by sliming through too slowly But I hope, harambee, you saw the wink nevertheless, did you? RenaRd, I'm afraid makes you a first choice for the next snail house constructor - with such a start it only can become gorgeous ;-P. Comment Kurt Vonnegut: Famous writer of amazing short stories!

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I adored him. Semicolons: Everybody loves them, but nobody dares to use one. You know why it took so long to write my postings. It was opprobrious I had to look this word up! Fortunately the memory of snails is extremely short. Thus nobody will recall your proposal when this thread is going to end. Which might take place in a few days only — if the snails go on running like this? Take good care of yourselves! Comment Oh, come on, RenaRd, you're not going to pout now, are you?


  • Horse & Cart.
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  • INSIDE OUT;
  • I know why you think that you won't be able to build a new house. But I also see that you're a very attentive and regular snail, so if you make some notes for yourself during a thread right from the beginning - and maybe let the others now that you have the intention to be the constructor of the next snail house, so your efforts won't be shot down by someone else - I'm sure you could do a great job.

    There was no mockery in what I wrote. You're capable of much more than you would think. Und er davor, nur um nach snickerdoodle zu fragen Na, hoffentlich geht es euch allen noch gut. Ich nehme an, Frau Wik freut sich auch darauf. Comment Howdy Y'all! Haven't been here in ages, but just recommended the chat to a friend who is studying with me. I will need some english during the lectures and she might need it at work Did anything important happen during the last year of my absence?

    Comment Wow, FAW!!! It must have been years since you were here. Feel welcomed? Will your friend out herself as such when she turns up? Comment I will tell her to do so. She wants to check it out tomorrow evening. I just told her about it about 20 minutes ago. Comment Emil 14 I think there has been a discussion on Blumen vs. Hier ist sie! Hartes Training! Carullus You'd use blossoms in English, right?

    Der Satz ist m. RenaRd opprobrious! Man lernt sich nie aus. Es ist fast so gut wie Weihnachten! Comment Good evening! He had a good mind and a huge heart. RenaRd : I guess you understand me pretty good! It might be true. As I watch this video, I have the impression he still lives and I don't understand what has happened with this life of joy. Jane Lynch, a nice workmate from the "glee"-set, paid tribute to him and assured that every single smile all his fans or closer people had seen had been absolutely honest and passionate I thank everybody who tries to bring back those memories and shares sorrow with the ones who aren't able to find a way to express their feelings.

    I'm sure, if Cory had seen this, he would have been enormously happy and thankful. I'm actually rather a serious person, but this guy made me laugh. I'm aware of his private life I never had a view on. I've just seen a face he showed in public and after all I don't have the feeling that this face was wrong, it was basically not all he carried. You can type in his name and choose any video, if you're not completely averse to his humour and you found him quite sympathic before, you'll like it.

    Welcome back, Fleet Admiral Whipswinger nice name, by the way xD! I have the feeling I've never made your acquaintance before. If there's anybody who's annoyed by my little "teenie- topic" and who thinks it doesn't fit in here, don't mind telling me and I'll stop it right away! It's just that this fact bothers me and it really helps to talk a bit about it, thank you!

    Sleep well everybody Liest du das auf Deutsch oder Englisch? Aber jedem das seine! Comment This race is too fast for an old snail like me. But - just to make it clear - I have been to a snail farm, not snake farm. I thought it was obvious from the high numbers. Anyway; I knew that snails are hermaphrodites but learned that they make love for 18 hours And none of the naked snails are eatable, even birds, rats etc.

    I am withdrawing into my little house to prepare myself to being close to rattle snakes in a little while Comment "Jedem das Seine". I wouldn't use this term in the German language at all because of the historical background. It was the slogan at the main gate of the KZ Buchenwald. I know it is an antik proverb but I would have bad feelings using it, after all what has happpened.

    Sure, there are many things that have been abused, like Wagner, Liszt etc.. I would not like to do without them. Comment I wouldn't use this term in the German language at all because of the historical background. I disagree. Just because an old phrase Martin Luther used it, for all I know was used by Hitler Germany doesn't mean we can never use it again.

    There are some phrases, to be sure, coined by the Third Reich, which probably should not be used today I'm thinking of "Arbeit macht frei", "Kraft durch Freude" and such but "Jedem das Seine" is, for me at least, no longer ideologically charged. I don't think many people will think of KZ Buchenwald when they hear this phrase in regular conversation.

    Comment Lara : I'm reading it in English - but it's not because of that. I read most of my books in English, at least if it's originally written in English. It's just like I said, so far I don't really like the protagonists, could not see much humour yet? If you are interested, Locke was just on the ship of this merchant and sold him the story about the not-really-happening civil war.

    Usually I don't have problems with changes in perspective Game of Thrones being a case in point , but here, we'll see. For the moment, I have stopped, but maybe I will go back to it. Was thinking shortly if I should enter into the discussion re. If I refuse to use everything that has at some point in time been misused by Nazis - or other idiots for that matter - I would unnecessarily restrict myself and would, in the end, be poorer for it. Obviously, as Carullus has said, one has to be sensible, but I feel that if we do not dare to use, or enjoy, or just say things that were used by the Nazis, and forever let them be tainted by that, we give them more influence and power over us than they should have.

    Comment Good morning to all snails old and new from a - for once - sunny North-Rhine Westphalia Enjoy Samhain to whom it may concern! Carullus and - as Edit says - Abertawe , it's different with me. Whenever I hear that phrase, it sends shudders down my spine? Besides, even when used "innocently", it sounds far too Darwinian for my ears. Comment Ingeborg Darwinian - does that in your opinion also apply to the context in which Lara used it originally in ?? To me it clearly doesn't.

    I agree with Carullus here. It reminds me a bit of the discussions about Berlin becoming Germany's capital again after the unification - some people said it could never be seen as a "normal" capital again after having been the capital of Nazi Germany - and is that still on anybody's mind today? Not that I know of. Berlin has been given its chance, and it has used it and developed a new identity which includes all periods of its history.

    I'm going to enjoy Reformationsfest today. Jedem das Seine Comment I, too, have absolutely no problem with this phrase, not only because I was not even aware of it being used for this purpose call me ignorant if you want, but WW2 isn't exactly my favourite topic to deal with. Besides: If I'd refuse everything that was abused during that period of time "Meistersinger" had to be taboo as well, but I simply love that music and story too much to abstain from it just because some idiot misused it for his sick ideology.

    Comment Goldammer Of course not. However, in my opinion, far too many people not necessarily the snails here although I don't know all of them well enough use that phrase in the sense that everybody will get what they deserve winners and losers. And of course I didn't want to imply that everybody who uses this phrase has anything to do with Nazism. That's why I wrote " Comment I have never outside of KZ Buchenwald heard or seen the phrase "Jedem das Seine" with the meaning of "You got what you deserved".

    On every other occasion it was meant to say "I don't like [whatever], but if you do, that's fine with me". To call the phrase Darwinian, by the way, misunderstands Darwin. Evolution is not some almighty deity who bestows rewards and punishments. It is not an entity. If you have heard the phrase used in that way, however, I understand why you don't like it. I have met other people who have this association, so I try to avoid this particular phrase.

    Comment That is what I mean, a Phrase is not a house ore city you can't tear everything down that has ever been touched by a Nazi but a phrase can be avoided and everybody is free to choose. I choosed not to use it. Ingeborg , shudders down my spine, that is the feeling. Comment I would not use the phrase and I don't like to hear it. If you are talking in a philosophical context, say it in Latin or Greek. Comment You'd really use that in a colloquial conversation, Emil?

    I can hardly imagine I'd do so. If you discuss a subject and have different opinions but would like to express that you accept the other persons point of view, preferences etc. And I'm pretty sure most people are not even aware of that former use as I wasn't. Even PC can be overdone - or will we have to check every single phrase before using it in future if there wasn't some "bad guy" who used it for his propaganda 50, or years ago so we have to consider it taboo nowadays?

    Aber, wenn ich dass ab jetzt vermeiden sollte, dann mache ich das! Comment Thanks, Lara , for the phrase. Maybe I should drop in more often You never stop learning vs One never stops How would you say it? Comment oh, oh, oh Es ist fast Abend Ich arbeite nach wie vor an einer meiner Stammschulen und bin immer noch kreativ unterwegs Schade, dass RenaRd versehentlich auf seinen getreten ist, meiner war sehr lecker. Wie bitte, F. Was man nicht alles im CC endlich lernt, oder vielleicht wusste ich das und hatte es vergessen. Comment I was totally at a loss what suziq meant Comment I was totally at a loss what suziq meant.

    I still am! Kriegt sie einen neuen Nick? Wozu braucht sie eine Geburtsurkunde? Man lernt nie aus. Kevinismus finde ich ganz lustig! Das englische Wort ist schon abwertend genug, wenn auch etwas scherzhaft gemeint, aber das deutsche Wort ist total inakzeptabel. Es tut mir aufrichtig leid Abertawe , dass ich deinen Nick schon zweimal falsch geschrieben habe. Bestimmt brauche ich eine neue Brille! Wohnst du etwa in Swansea?

    Comment Hallo Schnecken! Hi to all the new snails, the current regulars and the past regulars passing through.

    Filmography

    I have been meaning to write for a long time, months to be exact, but I have not found the time. I may have to divide this into a couple posts. Robert had requested a revisit in one of his highlights, so maybe you will get twice the entries this time. Not sure if I previously mentioned that we have all our things at the house now and gave up the apartment.

    Now, I just need to sort and edit belongings in preparation for the onslaught of family houseguests between Christmas and New Years. NPR aired a show with a South African talking about wanting to create a national Braai Day so that there would be a holiday all South Africans could celebrate together.

    A month or so later there was what I will refer to as a companion atmospheric event. I will save these spectacles for another entry which will also double as a little science lesson which some of you may have noticed are the majority of my sporadic contributions. It might even draw Wachtelkoenig into the chat to comment. Carullus - Loved the picture of the Vienna earthquake.

    Myself and my better half had a wonderful belly laugh for a couple minutes. It was still good for more laughs upon a second and third viewing of the picture; thanks! All - There were many others not mentioned in this entry that have provided entries that amused me, caused me to think or otherwise should have been worthy of individual comment but after 3 or 4 CC houses it cannot all fit into in one box.

    I'll ask her via another channel if it is ok. Yesterday our furnace, for about the th time, broke down. Now we are heating with the kitchen stove until Super Mario is here. Unfortunately my eyes worsened, reading really needs a long time and writing even more. I know I could do it somehow, but it would take days. Can you imagine what it would mean to read postings and condense them to highlights? May I ask for your understanding? But we have visitors and they got up meanwhile after a long day in Munich yesterday. Therefore I have to leave you without having read your postings.

    Oh, before I forget: I met three ladies from Chicago in the train back last night. I loved their very clear nearly accent-less English, highly understandable for non-ENS. They stay in RenaRd-town for some time what a coincidence! Comment Good morning everyone! Is Jenna around by any chance? Her choral expertise is needed in this thread: related discussion: Walpurgisnacht heutzutage - 5 Have a nice day!

    Years ago, she met a leonide at a Leo meeting whose nick is completely without vowels - that's why he is sometimes called " Konsonantenhaufen ". They fell in love, have been living together for years, and now suziq needs a birth certificate because they are getting married Ist diese LEO-Liebesgeschichte auch einmalig oder kommt so was oft vor? Darf man hoffen? Ich bin neu im CC. So viele von euch kennen einander schon ziemlich lange - ich habe viel nachzuholen.

    RenaRd I met three ladies from Chicago in the train back last night. But if you manage to go to a real Leo-meeting there are several Stammtische all over the world, most of them in Germany, though , there's always hope!! Comment Hey there, just checking in really quick while sitting in my law lecture The newbie is sitting next to me.

    Have a great weekend you all. Everybody has something to talk get? Not your fault but mine. Is there a joke I missed? Thanks for the corrections. Comment RenaRd : Minizicke is suziq's daughter and mother of suziq's grandchild. Years ago suziq used to relate teenie stories about her; that's when that "nick" was created You can see, the CC really has a history Comment Self correction: "De gustibus no n est disputandum" Thank you, Goldammer.

    To me it looked like the Granddaughter was called Minizicke. Comment RenaRd: Yes, to non-insiders it certainly looked that way. Nur 1. Mir fehlt nur etwas Motivation im Moment. RenaRd: es sieht so aus, als verwenden wir "to each his own" anders auf Englisch als auf Deutsch. Die Zeit fliegt! I think 'vertrauen' goes with Dativ:- if used without auf. Whatever it means to you, since this proverb was misused it is very closely locked in the cupboard of poisons of the German language.

    Comment Aha, another contra voice. I chose it because the "following" refers to the time when was posted until now. Ich habe immer noch nicht mit meiner Arbeit angefangen. Naja, der Tag ist noch jung, oder?

    Vielleicht brauche ich einfach einen freien Tag, und kann morgen produktiv sein. Comment A very strict contra voice, I promise you. Sure I follow this thread, but do not write for a certain reason anymore. Comment May I correct your correction, walther? For both sentences it should be "gute" instead of "guten". In addition I would drop the 2nd "e" in "euerem". I'm so sorry, Lara Chu, that I picked your so positively meant sentence to pieces Sachs: You overtook me while I was editing the bald letters.

    Be welcomed! Comment Ich schleime durch, nur um ein Lebenszeichen zu geben. Der ganze Flughafen wurde einige Stunden eingestellt bzw. Ich werde mit ihm am Feldrand stehen, wenn er nicht gerade auf dem Feld spielt. Heute bekommen wir eine Stunde mehr - wegen der Zeitumstellung. Ich kann sie gut gebrauchen. Morgen in einer Woche haben wir unseren ersten Feiertag. Den kann ich auch gut gebrauchen. Please speak for yourself. I don't think a majority of native speakers will share that sentiment; for the record, I certainly don't.

    You're welcome not to use this phrase, obviously, just don't be too smug about it, and please don't insinuate that others would be somehow "poisoning" something by continuing to use it. Yes, but I would have also said "euren" instead of euer e n. Sorry, "darf" is also possible. Sachs "You'd really use that in a colloquial conversation, Emil? What is wrong with this phrase in your opinion? I am aware there are other possibilities. But please note that that was written on Reformationstag Did you enjoy "Ein feste Burg By the way, what do you think about this usage of "Jedem das Seine"?

    As you see there is a lot of disagreement among the GNSs. On the other hand, "suum cuique pulchrum est" does not yield many Google-hits for German sites, suggesting rare usage, which is surprising in view of the statements from several GNS snails. Carullus , , "I don't think a majority of native speakers will share that sentiment; for the record, I certainly don't. As to the CC snails, it is obvious that the numbers of pros and cons are not significantly different.

    While snails may not be a representative sample, there is still no obligation to always go with the majority. Most likely, however, things like this are not a matter of majorities and minorities, but rather a matter of the Many and the Few. Like it or not, using "Jedem das Seine" as a native speaker is telling something about you. Comment Hello snails, here I am joining the night race!

    Waving to Lara Chu — so you are procrastinating? I am very good at that, too! And congratulations to your upcoming marriage, suziq, and the change of your name into a "Konsonantenhaufen" I like this word! And now for something completely different: Currently I am listening to "Songs For Drella" by John Cale and Lou Reed — an album they wrote on the occasion of the death of Andy Warhol in well, he died in , but this album was published in Tomorrow actually today, on Sunday there will be a performance of this album and I am really looking forward to it. And in the evening there will be another performance I already saw twice and wrote about it in this chat — "Never Too Loud" — the songs of The Velvet Underground.

    The reason for these many events there were already two today actually yesterday, on Saturday but I only saw one of them because I had another appointment this afternoon ;- is that the musical director retires and the theatre shows his best four productions on two days. So this is the last opportunity to watch these wonderful shows and listen to the wonderful music performed live. May he stay alive and kicking for a long time! Self-correction for Replace "Most likely, however" with "Instead". Comment By the way, what do you think about this usage of "Jedem das Seine"?

    I have never seen "jedem das seine" used that way. If you say so. At least I'm in good company: I have never, ever heard anybody object to this usage before, certainly not outside of this forum. It's not the least bit contentious in the circles that I move in. As I've said: use it, or don't, it's all the same to me. Just don't try to tell the rest of the world they shouldn't be doing it, either, because it's somehow "wrong" in your opinion.

    Would you care to tell me exactly what that tells you about me? I don't say anything about those people who don't use it, I respect their choice and I appreciate it that Steve brought in the association with Buchenwald of which I wasn't aware at first - and btw, I'm sure that with that I'm in a great majority of native speakers. So, to be honest, I don't find it appropriate that some of you who make a different choice than mine feel entitled to point at me and put me in a corner where I certainly don't belong at all.

    I don't have the time to follow up all the posted links on the topic, btw, just in case I missed something important And, just for the record, another context in which the saying appears: J. Bach's cantata No. To make one thing clear: I don't want to open a discussion about the message of the cantata text; I just wanted to share it in the context of our discussion about the saying "Jedem das Seine", as an example of its use in a respectable context. Comment Heute war die Zeitumstellung hier auf der linken Teichseite.

    Schon ausgeschlafen um und um habe ich mit Hausaufgaben angefangen, aber ich sitze nicht im dunklen. Der Tag hat Potential und ich bin gut gelaunt, dank der Zeitumstellung! Nach einigen regnerischen Tagen scheint die Sonne wieder. Hoffentlich findet ihr es nicht gedankenlos, wenn ich zu Korrekturen wechsle.

    There will be a performance of the music from this album Comment Emil: I strongly agree with Carullus and Goldammer. Your statement that the usage would say something about the person who uses this phrase is nothing but arrogant. No one forces you to use it but to condemn people who use it doesn't make you a saint either. As I said before: Will we have to check each phrase we use in future if there wasn't some abuse of it in former times? Sorry, but that's a foolish request. And for the sentence you asked about: That's no context I'd see this sentence in.

    Using it this way simply would seem wrong to me, not because it might come close to the usage you see in it making it taboo, but because that's simply not what this phrase is about. Will someone accompany me? Emil 14 , Like it or not, using "Jedem das Seine" as a native speaker is telling something about you. What does that tell about me? Like many others. Furthermore, I never heard about the misuse in a KZ until you mentioned it three days ago. Lara Chu, you brightened my day by offering a new topic: sunny mornings. Gut, dass mindestens eine DaF-Lehrerin vielleicht noch mitliest.

    Woher kommt das eigentlich, vom ZZ etwa? Ein guter Einsatz jedenfalls, woher auch immer. Die Hotels, Restaurants und vor allem Bootanlegestellen am Seeufer??? Was ist denn der Unterschied? Comment If you say so. At least I'm in good company: I have never, ever heard anybody object to this usage before, This might have to do with the fact that you are Austrian. In Austria had never been a discussion of the nazi era in the broad public, as it had in Germany, at least in Western Germany.

    It's common sense not to use this phrase among the people who are aware of the misuse, like Steve and me. Comment bluesky, schreib auf Deutsch, wenn Du kein korrektes Englisch hinkriegst. Guten Abend, bluesky. Wie geht es dir denn, bist du etwa dieses Wochenende wohin Interessantes mit dem Rad gefahren oder war es zu kalt?

    Guten Abend dir auch, penguin, wie geht es dir? Wohnt ihr jetzt in einer Weinbaugegend, dass ihr die verschiedenen Farben des Laubes gemerkt habt, oder war das in England oder woanders? Comment This might have to do with the fact that you are Austrian. I'll stop right there. I really do not think your remark is appropriate, or, for that matter, appreciated, and while an outright ad hominem attack makes you look foolish, above all else running out of arguments, are we?

    For this reason alone I really wish you would refrain from similar utterings in the future. I for one certainly have no intention to discuss this any further. Irgendwo verlaufen meine Grenzen bei dieser Frage und diese Grenzen werden bei anderen anderswo verlaufen. Wie ist es bei mir nun ganz konkret bei "Jedem das Seine"? Zugleich hat mir die Diskussion nach der Tchibo-Werbekampagne gezeigt, dass es ein breites Meinungsspektrum bei dieser Frage gibt und dass die Grenzlinien nicht so einfach zu ziehen sind.

    Eigentlich plane ich aber, es bei diesem Beitrag zu belasse. Zum einen soll es eine Ausnahme bleiben, dass ich hier auf Deutsch schreibe und zum anderen ist eine solche Diskussion im CC wirklich schwierig. Comment Thank you, harambee , for this very balanced treatise. I agree with almost all points you made, but I still believe that something not a lot can be concluded from the usage of in this case "Jedem das Seine" I also feel that I owe this explanation to some other snails.

    If you decided to avoid the expression and another person says "Jedem das Seine", you need not talk about concentration camps or WWII, you simply know that you disagree with that person about how things like this should be dealt with. And I would consider this an important bit of information. Of course, this may not work with every person: some may be too young and have not heard about it, others may have heard about it and forgot.

    But even if some eliminated the information from their memories, as you suggest, they obviously treated the matter in a different way than I. If that other person discards the Buchenwald gate as unimportant information, my conclusion remains as above. Thank you for reminding us of the Tschibo campaign. I, too, will leave the discussion now. Comment How can you draw the tiniest little bit of conclusion about a person if you do not even know whether this person is aware of any reason for a grain of salt in the phrase?

    Sorry, Emil, but that's nonsense. Comment Hallo! Normalerweise Ich bin ein stille Leser. Ein neue Thema heute Abend: Regenboegen und Schmetterlinge Rainbows are the second reason that I had been thinking about writing a few months ago. I only added butterflies to the topic since the weather today was so nice and I am sure there must have been some butterflies flittering between the flowers. One day towards the end of August a couple hours before sunset I was not able to swim because of thunder. As I was heading west in the parking lot to get in my car, I saw the most unusual and impressive cloud.

    Above the halo part of the cloud and off to the sides there were vivid iridescent colors that I have not ever seen in a cloud.


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